Curse

I Am Ze Man · Jul 09, 2010, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Recently, I've been playing a lot of HA and I've noticed (although everyone already knew this) that about 90% of r9+ teams run balanced. This thread isn't an inquiry, it is merely a statement. Balanced isn't the best build for winning. If all the high ranked teams ran bbway, there'd be a lot more r15's out there.
I'm just saying...

Pleikki · Jul 09, 2010, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Meeh, Balanced is Best vs anything when ppl know what theyre doing..

Imo

jonnieboi05 · Jul 09, 2010, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Balanced is meant to be formidable vs all builds; hence it is "balanced".

By the way, welcome to HA.

Sirius Bsns · Jul 09, 2010, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Any strong 8-man balanced team can take out bbway, especially with a PD Mesmer [to stop the spirit spammer], and just enough anti-melee to cover the W/A's [i.e.: BSurger, Water ele, Unsteady ele, etc...].

Balanced is generally the best way to go as it can handle almost anything thrown at them.

Killed u man · Jul 09, 2010, 12:24 PM // 12:24

HA balanced definatly = fame. Also, running HA balanced right doesn't even require that much skill (Look at the many balanced HA guilds who'se members still are terrible at the game at any other role than they play), but just more than the roll-head-over-keyboard-ways.

Also, balanced definatly requires vent, a caller and people communicating. This is why alot of people (mainly frenchies and germans) usually get r10/r12 without having played balanced once, solely because they don't speak english, or even refuse to vent up with other people who speak the same language.

Put it shortly:

HA Balanced (W/W/R/E/Me/Rt)requires an extremely low amount of skill to be run decently, but even that is too high for the average HA'er nowadays who comes directly from PvE where he had his heroes carry him.

This is simply the fallout of the problem since the start of Guild Wars: new PvP'ers (aka PvE'ers) don't learn how to play the game. They learn how to farm/get carried. They expect and assume this is how PvP is played aswell, and all these buttonbash builds allow them to be right.

Destiny2097 · Jul 09, 2010, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

If all the high ranked teams ran bbway, there'd be a lot more r15's out there.
I'm just saying...

Ward of Stability says hi. I've played a few balanced shockwave teams recently and it's funny to watch the bb'ers qq.

Having a brain is much more important than rank, e.g. the number of times I've played with r10+ idiots don't put up soc on koth, don't use the timer to our advantage etc. is unbelievable.

Edit: Another weakness of bbway is that soc is too easy to rupt. E.g. last weekend eB beat us in on of the early maps. We went in again and skipped to courtyard where we faced them in a 3way. As infuse I rupted 2 of eB's socs when they were trying to cap which led to us winning. I know that aegis isn't 100% rupt proof, but it certainly helps.

axe · Jul 09, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

At OP, this also depends on your timezone,

For example in American Timezones Balance is the best build for Fame because since it is so dead, the point of balance is to win HoH (eventually you will due to skips even if you struggle on certain maps) and then you have the best setup for holding. Once you are in and you get a lot of 1v1 situations this is the best way to make fame on the consecutives.

However recently HA has been SO DEAD on American timezones that the holding team gets tired of waiting for the next match and rages out, we had a 3 way match where we loaded in as blue.

Euro times it is still good farming with fast gimmicks, you can make more fame by rolling teams in 4 min. And do full runs, even if you dont hold.

The real high ranked teams dont form in Party search either. Also of note, a lot of people simply prefer playing a certain build, even if it means little or no fame. There is still a lot of fun to be had in HA even if you "suck" its just a fun format, wish more people would participate.

Missing HB · Jul 09, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

To make a link with the thread i created : the only reason all these people play balanced is because it's the only viable build for 1v1 Hall ( which happens all the time ) , and it can handle those easily because there is no DP ( think of courtyard , 1v1 or not , beating a balanced is a huge joke ... )

Aswell , another reason is that the only other build played actually is BBWay ( for no reason) , but that build is terrible : only 3 damagers , you kill spirits you won ( which is very easy for a non-retarded balanced ) . Some people will say : cmon BBway is free win if 1v1 hall cap pts : seriously , we've seen enough fights on B to know it's completly wrong. In theory , it should win , but in pratic it doesnt at all ....

The problem is that Hexway beats balanced , but gets beaten by BBway , thus thats why , for a few weeks , we can see balanced only winning halls since noone is even trying to play hex anymore .

In other words , to sum up : Balanced is nice atm , because BBway's are terrible ( build and players ) , and because it's free win on 1v1 hall for reasons people mentionned.

Krill · Jul 09, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destiny2097

Ward of Stability says hi. I've played a few balanced shockwave teams recently and it's funny to watch the bb'ers qq.

Yeah, exactly. Like any gimmick build it's very one dimensional.

There are three reasons I can think of to run balanced, two of them are good and one not so good. Good reasons are that it has all the tools to compete well on objective maps / HoH and it's easy to bring in friends, even a pugger or two to fill positions that are commonly played. Bad reason is balanced is considered honorable; winning > honor imo.

How much fame you get basically comes down to the team synergy and how good the build is at holding. There are plenty of builds that are capable of holding, but when it comes down to it most players seem to find balanced provides the most fun day in and out so you can built up synergy with a group of people. If you have a group or guild of around 10-12 active players you're not going to maximize efficiency by switching builds every day; that is it's better to master one rather than be good at many.

Edwards · Jul 10, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

HA Balanced (W/W/R/E/Me/Rt)requires an extremely low amount of skill to be run decently, but even that is too high for the average HA'er nowadays who comes directly from PvE where he had his heroes carry him.

I take offense to this, as I come from PvP, where I had my heroes carry me.

Frank Dudenstein · Jul 10, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Skill in Guildwars PvP is funny .. some builds get exponentially better as the players get better .. and others only get slightly better as the players get better. Take the warrior:

Mediocre Axe War < Mediocre BBWar < Excellent BBWar < Excellent Axe War

...

Team builds go the same way:

Mediocre Balanced < Mediocre BBWay < Excellent BBWay < Excellent Balanced

It has been this way since release .. its just the ----way changes from time to time.

...

Here's the thing .. getting skilled at GW isn't easy and 98% of the people who think they are highly skilled are not. The reason the same guilds are constantly at the top of the GvG ladder .. and the same Guilds win Halls whenever they want .. are because they are the top players and all those other "top players" really aren't. GW is a unique MMO in that the better players do win almost all the time.

When it comes to getting fame .. BBWay is actually the way to go for most people. Getting good at BBway is easy and when you get good at it you will beat most teams.

You will never beat a top team with BBway, but frankly, unless you are part of that 2% of people that are REALLY willing to WORK HARD at getting really really good (at a video game) .. you aren't going to beat them anyway. So it's irrelevant.

Average players will maximize their fame with easy meta builds like BBway.

Killed u man · Jul 11, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

First part about player skill having different effects on different builds is definatly true. However, in HA an excellent BBWay will mob the floor with balanced. Me and Nick (aka the people who invented the BBSin and BBway) formed up a bbway with alot of our old core, all of which havent played HA for months, and we absolutely destroyed anything.

We mobbed up the top 100 bought bbsway guilds in under 2 minutes. All the hexway guilds and balanced guilds didnt stand a chance. The only build that gave us some problems was the shockwave balanced with Ward of Stability. But even that build eventually crumbled when our rit finally managed to leech stability, or the NR and Tranq raped the monks energy they couldnt keep up with 3 brutal sins pumping flail attacks for +-40 dmg each.

I dont thikn we lost once in our 4 full runs, and even in HoH we held atleat 5-6 times each run. The build is definatly still the best build to run in HA.

Reverend Dr · Jul 11, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Um no.

You've been playing too much HA where there are just no good warriors. A standard warrior can provide good pressure while being able to exploit any opportunities that arise. A BBsinwarriorthing has no pressure of which to speak and and can only make any offensive threat when backbreaker is up. At lower skill the backbreaker sinwarrior will be more effective, but at higher skill the standard warrior bars will pull ahead.

Krill · Jul 11, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I think what he meant to say was that eventually a heal monk won't be able to keep the whole team over 80% health or so, at which point it becomes easier for the BBway team to start pushing kills by random chance. This is how I usually see BBway matches play out after it was changed to using a twisted rit and pnh monk, i.e. they last a lot longer than the older build.

Killed u man · Jul 11, 2010, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Um no.

You've been playing too much HA where there are just no good warriors. A standard warrior can provide good pressure while being able to exploit any opportunities that arise. A BBsinwarriorthing has no pressure of which to speak and and can only make any offensive threat when backbreaker is up. At lower skill the backbreaker sinwarrior will be more effective, but at higher skill the standard warrior bars will pull ahead.

Yes, I was talking about the build as a whole. BBsway is better than balanced when played right. An axe might be more versatile, but who needs versatility in a format where everything is "kill the opponent"...

A bbwarrior will also solo just anything whereas a regular axe will get solod by alot of HA bars...

I Am Ze Man · Jul 11, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

By the way, welcome to HA.

There really isn't too many good balanced teams out there, and here I'm discussing the 98% of balanced teams that are bad.

Btw, this is a discussion about earning fame, not about "Balanced rolls everything in halls," etc., even if it does. BBsway has dash/QZ i believe. Just a thought.

Also, I despise of retarded warriors who are somehow r7+ and when we ask, "Can you call?" and 80% say "No." Don't play a warrior if you can't call, which brings me back to bbsway again... lol... those warriors make up the bbways that all of you claim to beat because "balanced is so pro.."

Shadowspawn X · Jul 11, 2010, 11:39 PM // 23:39

It depends on your attitude playing the game imo. When you first start out a gimmick will give you more fame instantly. Balanced is a slow learning process and requires more class mastery and battlefield awareness. However if you put the time in with balanced in the long run it will produce fame that a gimmick never will, also gimmicks come and go so what you are learning will be nerfed into oblivion eventually leaving your skills at square one. Balanced will never be nerfed and always be relevant. So if you just want that r8 for HoM go with the latest gimmick while you can, but if you intend to play awhile go to balanced.

Killed u man · Jul 12, 2010, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

It depends on your attitude playing the game imo. When you first start out a gimmick will give you more fame instantly. Balanced is a slow learning process and requires more class mastery and battlefield awareness. However if you put the time in with balanced in the long run it will produce fame that a gimmick never will, also gimmicks come and go so what you are learning will be nerfed into oblivion eventually leaving your skills at square one. Balanced will never be nerfed and always be relevant. So if you just want that r8 for HoM go with the latest gimmick while you can, but if you intend to play awhile go to balanced.

There is enough people to proof you can ge all your fame from playing one gimmick (r13+) and still be at square 1 when you go back to pve with a phoenix.

There´s R14 fire eles, Bitchbar rits; tons of R12 prisms, bbwarriors and contagion wayers; etc

Again, if its about the fame, go for bbsway, or the recently pushed back into meta R/A-way with assault enchanments. (Which sadly I made even before the old R/A-way got nerfed, but noone seemed to run it)

bungusmaximus · Jul 12, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Again, if its about the fame, go for bbsway, or the recently pushed back into meta R/A-way with assault enchanments. (Which sadly I made even before the old R/A-way got nerfed, but noone seemed to run it)

Because assault is horrendously overpowered and ppl catch up on it only now.

axe · Jul 12, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Its still about farming the format DURING the times you play..

Which is why on American Times most R9+ pugs are balanced because you win UW and you skip to 1v1 Halls. You simply have the best chance at holding when you spec for it.

If your time of play has no skips, then people maximize their fame by whatever wins fastest. BBsway is a good choice here, you farm every map, the better teams will win HoH a couple times, and then start over, maximizing the consecutives is the way to earn fame, not boring your opponents to death with 30 min. Balance vs Balance matches.

And again, now that this game is way old, people are typically playing for fun anymore and they play what they enjoy and with WHO they enjoy playing with, which is why party search is so funny to look at as there are very few teams pugging.